mxdwn: Thank you so much for meeting with me today. My name is Antara. I'm from mxdwn.com, and I'm here with Eric Hilton, Washington, D.C. native, successful restaurateur, half of the Thievery Corporation duo and now a solo artist.
So, Eric has dropped two tracks ahead of this release of his first ambient album Out of The Blur, which was released through Montserrat House and Emerald Wave on June 28th.
Eric Hilton: That's correct, right.
mxdwn: Okay, sweet. We're just gonna jump right in. You shared that Out of The Blur was born from grief, but also from clarity. So, with a wide range of genres that you already have in your tool belt, these sentiments really could have been expressed through any form of music, right? So what inspired you to choose ambient to communicate these feelings?
EH: Well, I think there are a number of reasons probably. A few are that - I'm not a singer/songwriter, you know, I'm a producer artist so I couldn't really sing about my feelings, um, and I didn't even really know what my feelings were, per se.
So for the first time in a long time, I had a writer's block making music, and I just didn't feel like making music at all. But I had dabbled in ambient music, and I decided that I would just do that.
And I found that it was very helpful, um, in kind of processing emotions that I had with the passing of my very close friend and engineer, Egore.
And I loved doing it and I found that it's a type of music that I really enjoy making and it's very private to make it. You don't really need to make ambient music with anybody else - I actually don't think you should. You should probably make it completely on your own, which is what I did and it was just very helpful to me. I think people turn to ambient music to, you know, feel certain emotions and kind of keep it in the background sometimes, to just let emotions kind of come out and form clarity. That's what it did for me.
mxdwn: Okay. So kind of piggybacking on you being able to express how you were feeling through this type of music. A lot of people express their feelings through lyrics. And obviously your craft is heavily instrumental. So then ambient music, taking it a step further, is typically void of the sounds that we're used to hearing and the instruments that we're used to hearing. So how would you say you're able to communicate these feelings with the absence of both of these elements?
EH: Um, well, that's just the magic of music. I think that music, it's one of those things in life that's indescribable, and that's why we listen to it, you know, because there really are no words to describe music.
It's like a color. You can't really describe a color, right? And that's, you know, the special thing about those elements of life. But I do like to dabble in the not so obvious, right? So I find that a lot of the interesting found sounds and sound shaping you can do, and ambient music, is maybe even a little bit more, liberating than traditional forms of music. Like if I'm making a Brazilian cut, you know, I know that I'm generally working with guitar and bass and certain elements of percussion.
But in an ambient piece, you can literally use anything. I mean, some people use all sound effects. And, you know, I like . . . I was just using whatever sounded good to me in that particular piece. It's like a collage in a way.
mxdwn: So, I know that each track on Out of The Blur was influenced by really distinct memories and experiences that you've been through. Which of these tracks would you say, would you consider to be the most impactful while you were making music that was this deeply personal to you?
EH: Okay. So the first track "Out of The Blur" was the first track that I made on the five song album. And that one was, I mean, it really sticks out, even though it might not be the best song on that record. It's really important to me because it was the first one. I listen to it probably more than any of them, because that was when I just got started, and it was the one that I found the most helpful, and it was right after the death of my friend. And I kind of just built it over a few days. And then I would drive through the city listening to it in my car, and I was finding that it was really interesting just to look at life, but with this soundtrack behind you.
And so that one was very immediate. It was not about any sort of past experience. It was about, you know, what was happening right then and there. So that sticks out a lot.
I did mention, like on "Circle of Eyes," that I had this incredible experience with hypnosis - which I haven't done a lot of that since - but I definitely recommend that everyone try it and don't be afraid of it, because I don't know how this happened when I got hypnotized for the first time.
But I did have a kind of a trippy experience that you know, I kind of explained. It ended in this tape-loop of all the faces - seemingly all the faces - of everybody that I ever met in my life kind of going in front of me and it was very realistic. There are people I hadn't seen in a long time, and it was strange that those elements of your brain, your existence, could come out in this one process, you know? So I mean, I'll never forget that day. I'll never forget the feeling I had after I was hypnotized. It was incredible. It made me realize that there's a lot more in there, you know, in our heads than we even know. It's a vast universe in there. So that was definitely a past experience that I drew on.
And there's another one, "Starlings," that I had a period in my life where I kind of just spent a couple months doing the same ritual every night in the summer of just watching the sky in the back of my house and just there were always these swarms of birds. And I just thought it was just so beautiful. You know, I did that for like two months as a ritual and it was a very pleasant experience. So it was kind of an ode to that.
mxdwn: So what I'm gathering is that all of these tracks pretty much were impactful for you, and honestly, that makes sense considering the record is so short. So it's, you know, you have these really powerful five pieces of work that seem to have really spoken to you, and were really healing for you.
I know that you also said that you believe in the healing power of music, and you really want people to use this as like a sonic meditation. It's gonna make them feel centered, and it's gonna make them feel good. At what point would you say you first became privy to the healing power of music? Is this something that you've unlocked more as a solo artist? Or is it something that you kind of were dabbling in with the Thievery Corporation?
EH: I've been dabbling in that since I was a kid, you know, but specifically, with Thievery Corporation and sort of just vibrational frequencies about music. I remember that in our first studio at 18 Street Lounge, we had a window looking onto an alley. It was not a good view at all, but you could see the sky from the window too. So a lot of times I would, as we were making a song, look at the beautiful blue sky and clouds. And if it did not complement that view, I knew the song was not up to snuff. Like it had to at least match the vibrations that I got just from looking at the sky, which is always a beautiful thing for us to look at. So that's sort of a vibrational match, I guess. You know, you don't want - I didn't want - something to bring me down from that. I wanted to match that feeling. You know, music is just vibrations, that's all it is.
We resonate with all different kinds of music for different reasons. And, obviously, in the church, they sing hymns. And those hymns are supposed to really center people and inspire them or comfort them. So, you know that music, I think, is the most powerful art form - bar none. I mean, it is really, literally, the most powerful art form.
I've never gotten those feelings from looking at a two dimensional piece of art on the wall. No disrespect to painters and sculptors out there.
mxdwn: They probably might beg to differ a little bit. But, you know, this is your art. You're an artist, right? You know, there's gonna be a little bit of an inclination there.
So, during the pandemic, you began releasing music that was separate from the Thievery Corporation. I know you kind of touched on it in the last question, but how would you describe your music making process as a band member for 25 years versus a solo artist now? Do you feel like they have any impact on one another?
EH: Well, they definitely do. Just because, I mean, there's a lot of me in Thievery Corporation. But I found that making music for Thievery Corporation was becoming a little bit like making music for a performance act. Because over time, strangely what rob and I created was that Thievery Corporation started to develop into a live act and that was never my intention, even though it was pretty amazing. Because we did, you know, travel the world and still perform.
But, I just wanted to make music. And I found myself more and more making music with the live show in mind, like, "Oh, this will be great in the show. And, you know, this!" And I didn't like that, because I actually just wanted to make music that I just wanna listen to, like that day, you know? I didn't want another purpose for that music. So when I started doing my own music, I didn't have another purpose. I just made music that I wanted to make that day and I enjoy that a lot. So I will still make music for Thievery Corporation, but I will make a lot more of my own probably.
mxdwn: Kind of piggybacking off of that, I know you said that you never really truly embraced touring because it felt like "tourism" to you.
EH: Ha ha. Well, my partner, Rob hates that quote because he thinks it's insulting to touring,
mxdwn: Oh, and then we just keep bringing it up!
EH: That's okay. It's good that you bring it up. It's funny.
mxdwn: So then with Thievery Corporation, you guys have this really long, four month international tour coming up. How do you prepare yourself for long stretches of shows like this, especially as someone who has such deep roots in DC and such deep interest in you doing other things?
EH: Oh, well, you didn't know that I don't perform with Thievery Corporation anymore. I stopped a few years ago. Since, like, 2018, I believe so. I mean, I rarely go out on the road. I do it occasionally and I did a full European tour a few years ago. But, you know, for me, like, look, neither Rob nor I, we're not like players of music. We can play, but we produce music. We make it in the studio.
And then our hired band who are, all of our friends, are really the great players and performers. So when I'm there on the stage with them, I feel like I'm just there. I'm there to sort of, kind of make an appearance, right? But it's not the art, you know, the art is making the music in the studio, creating it. That's the art. And I try to tell some friends, "Look, it would be like Andy Warhol making an art piece that kind of gets them off but . . . well actually, he might be a bad example. But then it's like going to the art exhibit, you know, like you're not doing anything.
But you're just there, like, "Hey, look what I did!" Then, you know, it's fun. It's a bit of an ego boost. And it's fun to see the crowd resonate with your music, but you're not making any art. You're just kind of there to enjoy with them, right? But I've done that probably 700 times in 80 countries, so I'm really focused on just making music now.
mxdwn: So can fans expect to see you on any of the four month stops on this tour, just making an appearance?
EH: No. I don't have any plans actually to be on the road with the band. But I have a lot going on in the studio though.
mxdwn: Yes, I believe you. I believe you! So, you know, kind of going off you guys being in 80 countries and all these influences that were in the Thievery Corporation's music. Your sound thrives off of all of these sounds and influences from around the world. However, as a band, you guys were always really careful to highlight appreciation versus appropriation. So can you talk about how the band was able to walk this line in creation of your own sound?
EH: Well, that's a great question. It is tough because, I mean, early on, I saw a few pieces of criticism where you know the "appropriation" word was used and of course, I didn't like seeing that, but it made me think a lot about it.
I think we're pretty bold in what we try to do in music and maybe it's a little naive at times, but we just kind of don't care. Like I mean we make arabic music, and you know we're not, arabic and we don't speak arabic - we're not even trained in that scale - and Brazilian and Jamaican music.
But it is born out of appreciation because we are such lovers and consumers of music that I'm usually looking for the exotic and the great. So that combination is what really draws me to music. And exotic is just something you're not familiar with, right? So, I like to kind of immerse myself in music that I'm not familiar with. I just love Jamaican music and Brazilian music, and it's just kind of my thing.
mxdwn: So now that you've kind of completed your first ambient album, and you do have a love for all these genres, and you still - I'm sure you're probably still dabbling in those things, but can fans now expect this ambient album to be your new sound moving forward? Or do you have other projects in the works at this time?
EH: I mean, I hope to do another one in that genre. I'm not currently working on anything - like, I think I might have one song - that would fit within that genre. I'm really like all over the place. I mean it just depends on the mood. I could be making Brazilian one moment and sort of like futuristic jazz the next. And that's why Theory Corporation is such a great brand to deposit music into, because we've trained our fan base over many years to kind of expect the unexpected. And we'll do a Bossa Nova song, and then we'll do warning shots, which is like hardcore beats and speed rapping and stuff. So, it's been a luxury to be able to release so much diverse music under the same brand. Whether it works for Eric Hilton music, I don't know, but I'm gonna do it anyway.
And the next next record, it'll probably be more psychedelic and Indian, Turkish and sort of Eastern sounds will be in that record a lot, but who knows?
mxdwn: Okay, that's really interesting because I was going to ask if there were any genres that are on your list that you wanted to explore that you haven't already. But you named three, are there any more? Are there any other genres?
EH: No, not really. I mean, I'm not really hearing new genres of music that I want to explore. I'm one of those people who kind of looks backwards for inspiration, because I feel like everyone really does that anyway. It's hard to create a brand new type of music. But no, I can't . . . Alright, so yes! There is this vintage Argentinian tango song that I might work with, with my friend Natalia Clavier, which is very, very old world sounding. It won't even sound electronic. So that's a genre that I haven't really been immersed in that much.
mxdwn: Well, going back to the ambient projects that you've been working on, who are some of the influences for you, for your sound on this project?
EH: Definitely Brian Eno. He's kind of known as the king of ambient music. Who else? The name is escaping me right now. He did some really cool sixties soundtracks in the past. But, no real composer. I mean, you know, Robert Fripp and the kind of obvious ones, um, John Cale. Maybe even some that are outside of that genre, but they still touch my soul, in a way. Like the Cocteau Twins and Dead Can Dance. I would say Dead Can Dance sounds a lot like "Circle of Eyes," or vice versa. So there's definitely a linkage there. And you're probably like, who's Dead Can Dance? But they're kind of - you should check them out - they're cool. They're from the eighties, I believe, eighties and nineties. But they're kind of like a tribal ambient ensemble with sounds that are very classical.
mxdwn: Oh, nice! So, this is gonna be our last question. I'm not gonna keep you for too much longer after this. But I've always wondered [about] the sounds that you guys are putting into the ambient music. Where do they come from? When you sit down and you kind of like, put all these sounds together. Where are they coming from?
EH: Literally anywhere. So could be from records. Could be from synths. Also, samples. Well, from records, it's a sample, right? There could be a piece of keyboard line, and you just take, like, one chord. I'm like the king of sampling. I just love sampling. I love sampling little bits - like quick little bits - and then making things from them. Also, public domain sample stuff, like sample packs that you can buy on LoopMasters or Splice is good.
Everyone I talk to about Splice, it's like a service where you pay $10 a month and you have access to all these beats and sounds. I mean, it's like the world is your oyster. So it seems like, "Oh, that's easy you just make . . ." But, no, it's hard to find good things and then combine them.
So, that's another sort of treasure trove there. So find the needle in the haystack too.
mxdwn: That's what I always picture ambient music to be. Literally having to string together all of these tiny little pieces, because, like I said, it's devoid of the regular sounds that we're used to hearing and instruments. So I've always wondered, like, what in the world is this sound that I'm hearing?
EH: I guess that's part of the appeal, you know. And there's a lot of effects that go on too, right? So sometimes the effects are almost as important as the instruments themselves, right?
mxdwn: Well, thank you so much for meeting with me today and walk us through your process.
I really do hope that the album performs and does all the things for you.
EH: Thank you. I appreciate it! All right. Thank you so much.
