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Taken from St. Louis Indymedia Center (March 22, 2004)
Michael Franti Interview
by Michael Schaefer
Michael Franti and Spearhead made an appearance last Tuesday in St. Louis. They invited local activists and IMC to be at the show and for IMC to do a special interview!
Michael Franti at Mississippi Nights
3.16.04
Photo by Betty Schaefer |
It was a great honor for me when the St. Louis Independent Media Collective asked me to conduct this interview. There's so much I want to say about Michael Franti's music and politics, and I'll let Michael do the talking in a few minutes. But let me share some of the reasons Michael Franti is my favorite living musician.
When it comes to progressive issues, Michael has sung against every ill: racism, police brutality, war, corporate media, capitalist globalization, the repression of dissent, the drug war, sexism, homophobia, ecological devastation, you name it. But, despite his trenchant criticisms, Michael's lyrics are not cynical or self-righteous. While self-critical, his lyrics are also self-reflective and ultimately self-affirming.
And, unlike some political musicians, you can dance to his rants, too.
Michael approaches his audience in a very egalitarian way as well. On numerous occasions, I have seen him step off the stage at the end of a set and walk right into the crowd to meet and greet his fans. It was not the STLIMC who sought out Michael; Michael sought out Instead of War to table at the show, and, in exchange, asked STLIMC do have this interview.
Despite his firm political commitments, he is open and loving to all people, from peace activists to soldiers. If I were to define the ideological basis for Michael's political philosophy, I'd have to call it "spiritual humanism." I came to a greater understanding of where he was coming from after the show and interview.
The Interview
So, without further ado, on behalf of the St. Louis Independent Media Collective, I welcome you all to St. Louis, and thank you for this interview (two other members of Spearhead, guitarist Dave Shul and bassist Carl Young, initially present, make their way to the back of the tour van). Let's start with music. When people asked me how to decribe Disposable Heroes, that was pretty easy for me. I said "conscious industrial hip hop." But when people ask me to describe Spearhead, I can't give them a really simple label. "Conscious" still works, but I have to throw in a lot of styles like reggae, funk, r & b slow jams, straight-up rock. How do you describe Spearhead?
MF: Well, I just say "conscious music for the masses." If there was any one type of music I would say what we are, what I do is closest to folk music. Not in a "sound" sense, but in a tradition of writing songs for the community of people and wanting to write songs that are stories of the world around us. I see myself in line with a lot of other storytellers.
IMC: What can you tell us about the new album in terms of your evolution as a musician?
MF: This album is much more, for a lack of a better term, "musical." It was written from the acoustic guitar up. And we've become a stronger band, as a unit. We've been playing out a lot: over 250 shows a year for the last four or five years, so, we work on a song, record it, play it out on the road, tour with it, make some changes to it, and come back and record it again. So, all the songs are really road-tested.
And lyrically I really wanted to write songs, as is obvious by some of the titles of the songs like "Bomb the World," about what is happening in our times. But I didn't want people to feel like they do after they watch CNN. You know, like "Man, this world is a messed-up place" and so pissed off at those people who are making it messed up that I want to go and act out against them. Or, I'm so pissed off that I can't make any change and be depressed in my house. And so I wanted to make music that was uplifting for people like us who have entered into the struggle and decided that this is the place where we are going to be active.
People ask me alot about activism, and the great thing about activism is that you don't have to go to school to become an activist: you don't have to have a degree, you don't have to sign up, you don't have to go to an interview, all you have to do is show up. And the first time you show up, it's really easy, it's really great. And you feel really fired up. And the second or third time you show up it's great. The second or third time it becomes a little more work, you have to organize your time a little bit better. And the second or third year, you start to see some of things you worked on day one are exactly the same way as they were when you started. These little drops we are putting in the bucket are not adding up as fast as I want them to.
And then, when I meet activists who have been doing it for two and three decades, I sit down with them and I ask them: "How have you done this for so long?" and they say, "Well, I keep my sense of humor and I keep a creative outlet. And I enjoy art and music that lifts me up, that keeps me going, that keeps me strong." And so that's what I wanted to do on this record: music that lifts people up. So that maybe we won't change the world overnight, but I know I've done something that can help people get through a difficult night.
IMC: As a fan and an activist, I do appreciate your music and it certainly does that for me. Both politically informative and inspirational messages. In your songs, there is a major emphasis on positivity, as you said. What can you tell us do you think is the importance of bringing forth personal experience as it relates to politics?
MF: Everything that we see around us in this world...there is a great book called The Four Agreements and there's this notion of the "outer dream" and the "inner dream." The "outer dream" is everything we've created, the collection of thoughts. If somebody says, say "We need to get into this building, but we don't have anyway of getting inside of it," so we cut a hole in it, and then someone says "It's too drafty," so we add a door to it.
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And then someone says "I can't open this thing very well" so we add a handle on it. But then someone says, "now that it's open, I want it locked while I'm gone," so they put a lock on it. And that's how things happen in this world. It's a collective dream that we've all dreamed up for thousands of years. And, then there's the inner dream. And so what we see as turmoil in the outside world is a physical representation of the turmoil that's in the heart of each of us. And so when we work on that part, and we learn ways to create stillness, learn to become more aware of our real self, not the self that needs physical things, but our soul, our spirit, then we're able to help bring that loving spirit out into the world.
And it's superimportant, especially as activists, we're trying to communicate a message to a lot of people. That's really what we're here for. That's why we block street corners, that's why we hang signs from buildings, that's why we try to vote everyday with the dollars we spend. And so, our message has to be one that is contagious. But it has to be one that is flexible. And the only thing I know that does all that is love. And love is a great force; it can melt any arrow that's fired at it. It can melt the hardest adversary into someone that is smiling at your humor. And in doing that we till the soil so that the seed can be planted of a new vision of how the world can be. And that's really all we're trying to do is become the most effective communicators we can. The best thing an activist can do is to inspire those who are currently asleep.
IMC: That's excellent. I've been thinking a long time about the interplay of the personal and the political, and I think we need to work both on improving ourselves and we also have to work on society as a whole. No one can really be a puritan alone. No one exists in isolation, we all interact with the rest of society. And we can't wait to move society forward until we've perfected ourselves, because that just isn't going to happen.
MF: And it's something I've realized over my twenty years of being involved in activism that it just might be that the most we ever see in our lifetimes from all of our efforts, the most that all we personally ever receive from it, is the time that we spend with that man or woman across the table from you, making a sign. And we sit there, painting our sign, saying "No War," or "Fuck Bush" or whatever. That may be the most we ever get out of it. And if that's the case, then we really have to honor that, and let's try to make these relationships the most meaningful. Let's try not to bicker between ourselves about the petty things, and let's try to understand the broader strokes of the painting. And let's try to embrace as many people's ideas as possible and keep our eyes and our ears open to the other ideas of people who are coming into the struggle.
IMC: Well, we're moving into the direction of politics, and maybe we'll keep it on there a while, I'd like to bring it bring it back to music after a while, too.
I felt very uplifted to see that the United States stood with the rest of the world and opposed this unneccessary war Bush launched on Iraq. I was just reading a little bit of Robert Jensen's new book today, and he talks about how the protests of a year ago were the largest political mass mobilization in the planet's history. Yet, Bush and Blair went ahead. Bush called the 100,000 people in DC a "focus group." So, seeing that, where do we go from here? MF: Well, if he called us a focus group, then his group is definitely way out of focus [laughter]. And he clearly cannot see that the planet is going in a different direction. But, being the optimistic realist that I am, I see that, in some ways, what Bush is doing by drawing this line in the sand, is really giving all of us in the world an opportunity. You know, there's six-and-a- half billion people, and there's maybe just a hundred thousand people who run the corporate world if you're looking at the top tiers of it, and the governments of the world. And we far outnumber them.
So, right now is a time when people who have been pretty passive in the past, who have been a little shy at the water cooler about expressing what they really feel about last night's episode of "Friends" or who haven't been so sure that they're going to take there kids out to the parade on the weekend that has to do with this war. Those people, and I'm one of those people, we have all had to say "Now, let's think very clearly about what we feel is right about what's going on in this world." Because it's becoming more and more that these decisions that leaders are making are determining our future.
And right now, Bush has done everything he can to kickstart this economy: lowered interest rates, dropped the value of the dollar, he's done everything he can. And they say things are getting better, but the one thing he's never done is stop the jobs from leaving the country. And so we still have tons of unemployment even though some of the economic indexes appear to have these Band-Aids on them. And when you have lots of unemployment, you're going to have a lot of dissatisfied people.
So things in this country are really changing. And I'm very fortunate to be in this unique position of driving in a tour bus and talking to people everyday. At our last show in Indianapolis, this woman came up to me. She's mid-forties, blonde hair, dressed very conservatively, and she said "I came to your show and stayed for three hours of music just 'cause I wanted to talk to you." And I was thinking "Oh great, she's going to bring some Christian, right-wing rhetoric to me." But she handed me a button that said "Support Our Troops by Bringing Them Home Right Now." She said "My husband has been in Iraq for over a year. He's been in the military for over twenty-two years, and he is so sick and disgusted by what he is being told to do." And she is going to Italy on March 20th for the huge rally that is planned there and that are being planned all over this planet to speak not only against this war but all war and the military machine.
And so, at the end of the day, what I think Bush has done is to push the world in the direction that says "We don't want war. It doesn't work for us."
IMC: Well, I certainly hope so. And nothing causes a backlash like some really reactionary politics like Bush's. Now, there's no doubt Bush is a mad dog and an extreme warmonger. But, unfortunately, I don't see John Kerry as being a whole lot different. I mean, he voted for the wars on Afghanistan and Iraq. He's got some ciriticisms now, but it doesn't look like his plans for Iraq are fundamentally much different from Bush's. So, what do we do in November?
MF: Well, as I've travelled around the world have spoken to a lot of people who are really pissed off at what Bush has done. And they feel like their subjects of a kingdom. They live in Europe, they live in Japan, they live in Brazil, they live in Australia, and what happens with the Bush Administration affects their lives directly, but they can't vote in our country. That's like being subject of a monarchy. And so what they've said to me is that they're sick and tired of Bush. So you guys get him out.
So, that's my objective. Im registered as an Independent. I always vote Green in the local elections. But my job as a voter this year is to get Bush out of office. John Kerry may not have a better plan or not, but Bush isn't going in the direction I want. And I'd much rather see him on the unemployed oil baron line than to see him back in office.
And so I'm going to vote for any candidate in the local race that is Green. I'm gonna vote for the Greenest dogcatcher, the Greenest school supervisor, but this year I'm gonna vote to remove Bush.
IMC: Let's go a little bit back into the personal. I haven't read any interviews with you over the last couple of years, just listened to your music, but I did notice a little boy inside the "Stay Human" and "Everyone Deserves Music" albums. Is that your son?
Franti during his interview on the bus!
Photo by Betty Schaefer |
MF: Yes, that's my son, Ade. I have two sons: one who is five, that's Ade, the little one, and another one, he's as tall as me. He's sixteen and three-quarters, he's as tall as me, and his name is Cappy.
IMC: Congratulations. How has being a father influenced your music and politics?
MF: My first son was born shortly after I started in music. And so, he's really been a measuring stick for me my whole life growing in music. I always knew from an early point that, when I was out touring and spending months away from home, that I didn't want to come home and say, "Hey son, this is what I've been doing. Here's my album about me holding my dick, getting high and getting fucked." I wanted to make music so that when I came home my son could be proud of me, so that he would know that his dad was doing something good.
My son is a really beautiful person, both of them are, but my oldest has really taken up his own struggle. He was arrested three times protesting against the war. He's a graffitti artist and a musician himself. He works on a student board that advises the city council of San Francisco. He helped on Matt Gonzalez's campaign - he was the Green Party candidate for mayor. It's really amazing when you see your kid start doing stuff that shows his concern for the world. And I never tried to push any of that stuff on him. I never said "You have to play an instrument, you have to come to these rallies" or anything. He just kind of stood up on his own and it's deep. IMC: I appreciate you making "family-friendly" music, and I don't mean that in the Charlotte Church kind of way... MF: or the Tipper Gore kind of way...
IMC: because my wife and I, we've played all types of music together, and when we had kids, there's certain things I don't want them to hear. It's alright for adults, or maybe it's not even that good for adults either, but Spearhead is good for kids of all ages.
MF: What I find is that music helps us get through whatever it is that we're going through. There's something inherently healing about every type of music. People say to me: "What, are you kidding. I mean, even Britney Spears?" or something like that. And I say "I remember when I was like 11 or 12, and I had a crush on this girl in my class. And there was no way I could talk to my Mom or Dad about it. They were totally off in their own Neverneverland. But it was the songs on the radio that were the stupid, teenage love ballads that made me feel good about what I was going through." And yes, today, there's a lot of imagery in music and a lot of stuff that is used to just cram the music down kids' throats and snatch the money out of their wallets.
And that's really bad, but at the end of the day, it all
comes down to that kid and their headphones. And so whatever is coming through their headphones is really where the kid is at in his life. And I think we'd do much more of a service to our community and to our children when we talk about where our kids are at and listen to them. My son is into a punk band called the Unicorns, so I went to a record store this week and I bought the Unicorns album so I could talk to him about it and ask him "What do you like about it?"
I never inhibited any of the music my kids listen to or any of the movies they went to. If they wanted to go to any Rambo-style movie, I said "Let's go watch it and sit down and talk about it afterwards." But video games are different [laughter]. We never allowed videogames in our house.
IMC: I wanted to talk about another personal dimension in your lyricism. On "Hypocrisy is the Greatest Luxury," you were a "Socio-Genetic Experiment." On "Home" and "Chocolate Supa Highway" the imagery and lyricism on the album really reflect a Black identity. But, now, with "Stay Human and "Everyone Deserves Music," if someone asked me who Michael Franti was, I'd say "He's one of the freaky people who make the beauty of the world." How do you see yourself? Can you talk about the evolution of your own identity?
MF: My mother is White and my father is Black. I was raised in an adopted family, but they also adopted other Black children. The father who raised me was an alcoholic. So, within the household I was brought up in I never really felt like I fit in. I always felt like a kind of an outsider my whole life growing up. So what I did is created this family that extended beyond what was known as my legal family. It was the people in my neighborhood, friends and parents of friends, people who worked for the parks after school. It was a coach here or a teacher there, just people who became my support mechanism for being a kid. And then I found as becoming an adult that it's the same thing. I don't live near my family that I was raised with but I have a beautiful extended family around me who I love and trust.
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In terms of Black and White, I've seen life from all sides because I'm a mixed person, because I was raised by White parents but also their were Black kids in our house.
We talk alot about diversity and we say that diversity is about ethnicity. But within each ethnic group there are some people who like to take walks and there's some people who like to paint. There's some people who don't mind farting in bed and there are other people who are really offended by it. We have such diversity between each of us as individuals.
I think that when Bob Marley was talking about "One Love," he was recognizing that there's this so-called "the family," and that the goal was not this family over here had to dress like this family or subscribe to the same values of other families. It just meant that each circle of families had to become concentric. They had to connect like the Olympic rings. But all around the whole planet. And that's my message, too, for all of us, to remain who we are as individuals, still be OK with our own little families we create, but do the best we can to make those other families understand the interconnectedness of each other embrace each other.
And one of the last things, I hate the word "tolerance." It's a really negative world.
IMC: I know. It's like "I really don't like the kind of person you are, but I'll tolerate you."
MF: Fuck that tolerance.
IMC: Yeah, how about "acceptance?"
MF: Acceptance, and embracing. IMC: One last question for everyone who's going to hear and read this interview. Can you offer us any suggestions for further resources: organizations, websites, books, albums?
MF: Hmm... I'm reading this great book by this man, Daniel Quinn. I'm assuming it's a man, it might even be a woman that wrote this book. It's called "The Story of B," and he also wrote this book called "Ishmael." And "The Story of B" is about this priest whose job it is to track down what the church thinks may be the coming of the Antichrist. He's travels to Europe to find this man who's speaking this blasphemous talk. He finds out this man is not the Antichrist at all. He's talking about the fact that, up until about 10,000 years ago, we lived a whole different way.
Once man started agro-economies, pretty soon these things started like war, one group of people would take over another group of people and so on. It's a really historical novel, and he traces history back to, coincidentally, where organized society really started, in what is today Iraq, Mesopotamia. So he traces this phenomenon of greed coming out of that and how that has affected the way we live. And he offers up a new way of living that came before the last 10,000 years. For 150,000 years we lived with a different set of values, and we can return to some of those values in the world we live in today.
So I'd recommend that book.
IMC: Well, Michael Franti, thanks for this interview. On behalf of the St. Louis Independent Media Collective: stay positive, stay human, and thanks for your art. Thanks for your politics. Have a good show.
MF: Thank you.
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